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Are you aware that banner ads provide back links?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:00 am    Post subject: Are you aware that banner ads provide back links? Reply with quote

I am guessing to a certain degree, but it appears that banner ads in all aardvark sites provide back links to banner ads advertisers, as Google includes redirects when it counts back links. Are you aware of this?

(nothing wrong with it, but I thought it's pretty interesting)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any way of setting up PPC ads that only display when google is looking at a page?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Are you aware that banner ads provide back links? Reply with quote

foundThroughAdminSig wrote:
I am guessing to a certain degree, but it appears that banner ads in all aardvark sites provide back links to banner ads advertisers, as Google includes redirects when it counts back links. Are you aware of this?

(nothing wrong with it, but I thought it's pretty interesting)


Did you see Googlebot follow a link from one of your banner ads on Aardvark, FTAS?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re. PPC for Google - I'd guess so if you had control over their running by looking for the "user-agent: Googlebot" although I suspect it does checks occasionally using a more standard user-agent such as Mozilla compatible just to check for people cloaking.

Are you thinking if you were running an Adsense type system (maybe Overture's) that you could get Googlebot to do lots of clicks for you? Wink

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer things backwards - I think Googlebot has started recently following a lot of redirects. For example, all the links in our business directory go out via a redirect so we can track what traffic goes where.

Until recently Googlebot didn't seem to bother with those links, but in the past month or so it seems to have been following them with great curiosity, although it still uses the random page walking system so not every link on the page gets clicked every time.

Maybe this is finally a slight ray of light for the banner advertising industry?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Did you see Googlebot follow a link from one of your banner ads on Aardvark, FTAS?
aaron

I don't know exactly how Googlebot followed links, but here's what happened. I was just checking back links a couple of days ago, and I noticed that some links are from Aardvark. I assumed they are from forums, but I wanted to see how links were created, so I just followed back links. However, I saw no link to my website; these pages are from Aardvark search directories. Then, I thought, "Oh, Googlebot must have followed my banner ads when they were displayed." This is how I found out about back links.
Trev wrote:
Maybe this is finally a slight ray of light for the banner advertising industry?

That's an interesting observation; it is probably more productive to buy links if you are after PR, but it is still nice to know that there is extra bonus(back link) you get from banner ads.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose the only problem with banner ad backlinks is that next time Googlebot comes around the banner is likely to be different and therefore you might loose that backlink. I wonder if Google gives more weight to links that stick around?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Dempsey wrote:
Is there any way of setting up PPC ads that only display when google is looking at a page?


Yes Mike there is, you use what is commonly known as IP Cloaking, and it will get you banned. Cloaking (showing different content to spiders and searchers) is one of the worse crimes in the eyes of Google.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually thats not what i was asking.
Ip cloaking depends on modifying content on my website depending on the ip the request comes from, and it wont necessarily get you banned as long as you dont abuse it.
there are SOME legitimate uses for it.( regional content, etc)
same as user agent cloaking.
i was asking is there any way to set it up so that ANOTHER website will display your adds through clicksor or some other add provider if google comes around.
Its not cloaking your site its targeting your adds to googlebot.

I dont think its possible with current add companies but i was just asking.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no legitimate way to cloak, there ar occassions when cloaking is a simple answer, but cloaking of any kind will get you banned if your caught doing it. Google specifically states 'Don't employ cloaking or sneaky redirects.' http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html I 100% agree with you that it makes sence to geo deliver information based on IP, but that does not make it right. What should be done is to have Google spider every page and rank each page on its own merit.

I have just had someone come to me last week who has been nailed for this very reason. They were delivering different sites based on the IP address of the visitor. So Google was ranking one page, while the visitors were being served up another. Cloaking by any other name.
User agent cloaking is a grey area, as serving up slightly different content based on tables etc is completely different to serving up a completely different page to the useragent 'googlebot2.1' than that delivered to Internet explorer 5.5.

Quote:
Its not cloaking your site its targeting your adds to googlebot.
But surely that is exacty what cloaking is, delivering different content to a spider than you do to a visitor? or have I misread your post?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to your last question.
the content wouldnt be displayed on my site .
it would display one of my banners on someone elses site if google was there to provide backlinks.
now how could that get my site banned?????

also google will allow IP cloaking in some occasions.
For example sites that have flash content is one example.
google says they do not support/accept cloaking in order to decieve the search bots but if there is a legitimate use for such a technique they will allow it.
they just wont admit it.

The question i was actually originally asking was is there any way to have your adds displayed on someone elses site using an existing banner network like addwords, but setting it up so the banners for your site only get displayed on the OTHER persons site if google comes arround.
eg googlebot not supporting cookies or some such.???
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I See what you are saying about the cloaking now with regard your banner on another site, and as you say, it will not get your site banned it would be the site doing the cloaking that would be in trouble.

I have to disagree with you though about Google allowing cloaking to be used. Firstly google can now read basic flash files, as it can read basic Javascript. It clearly states in its T&C do not use cloaking technology.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes but if you only use it to change dynamic content like banners and auto rotated content there is no way of them knowing,
ps google allows a lot of big name sites to get away with cloaking as long as it is used in moderation.
changing content slightly they will allow.
showing a totally different page is another matter.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that they are allowing a lot to go on. They are also allowing the selling of Page rank, via page rank text links, when they Banned Search King. Google truly is duplicitous in some regards.

My concern is that when they flip the switch and run a trawl, a lot of dolphins get caught in the nets along with the Tuna who are cloaking.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do it well it shouldnt be a problem.
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