AardvarkBusiness.net - Business Search Engine AardvarkBusiness.net - Business Search Engine



 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

     

Pinterest
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AardvarkBusiness.net Forum Index -> Web Marketing Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
martynh
Vice President
Vice President


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 336
Location: Yorkshire, UK
419 ants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="paul"]
Kay wrote:

To be fair, though, item 1. still amounts to more visits than items 2. to 9. inclusive, so - to go full circle - perhaps you are OK (for now) just ignoring it altogether! Very Happy


Balance off time spent doing each piece against returns from it then you can form some means of a coherent plan
_________________
e-FM network | Get Above The Fold | Physiobench
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
paul
President
President


Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 8314
Location: UK
11706 ants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

martynh wrote:
Balance off time spent doing each piece against returns from it then you can form some means of a coherent plan


Correct me if I'm wrong, Martyn, but by this I am assuming you are suggesting that the time spent on social media is not time well spent... is that right?
_________________
UK Hotels - UK Selfcatering
Luxury Travel - Lake District Apartment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
martynh
Vice President
Vice President


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 336
Location: Yorkshire, UK
419 ants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul wrote:
martynh wrote:
Balance off time spent doing each piece against returns from it then you can form some means of a coherent plan


Correct me if I'm wrong, Martyn, but by this I am assuming you are suggesting that the time spent on social media is not time well spent... is that right?


Not at all - what i was trying to convey was to weigh up how much time is spent on each of the items 2-9 versus the business that comes from that effort
This may result in canning items 3,5,7 & 8 (just illustrative) and ending up with doing only items 2,4,6 & 9 which take little time but generate decent results

Then again you may have done this - & had a list of 19 and are now down to a list of 9...
_________________
e-FM network | Get Above The Fold | Physiobench
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
paul
President
President


Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 8314
Location: UK
11706 ants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, OK... sorry if I was putting words into your mouth.

Out of the list, the ones that I would say have spent time on are as follows:

1. google / organic - ?

2. direct - no time knowingly spent other than creating a small quantity of business cards with the URL on

3. t.co (Twitter's URL shortener) - significant time spent with Twitter to build followers... blog posts just auto-tweeted and do a modest amount of @ replies

4. facebook.com - not all that much time spent (for this particular site) - just a fan page with a blog feed that pretty much runs itself - could invest more time and probably get better results

5. stumbleupon.com (which I don't actually use myself, so don't know how that's come about)

6. twitter.com - see item 3

7. telegraph.co.uk - no time spent, just got recognition in a 'best travel blogs' article

8. bing / organic - ?

9. plus.url.google.com (Google Plus) - significant time spent but over a relatively short period of time (last few weeks primarily)

10. yahoo / organic - ?

Where I've put question marks, I think it's extremely hard to quantify... how do you assess the results versus time spent when you don't truly know how much better the results would be if you spent more time, or how much worse they would be if you hadn't spent time? And where do you draw the line? Obviously just creating the site content is a time investment (and easily the singlemost investment of time on the whole site) that helps to achieve results in the SERPs.

My conclusions: it's very difficult to quantify it all. Search engine traffic can dry up for all manner of reasons, social media could be a fad or could go from strength to strength. IMHO, it's good to have a good spread of traffic across multiple different channels - even if some require a greater investment in time - so that all your eggs aren't in one basket.
_________________
UK Hotels - UK Selfcatering
Luxury Travel - Lake District Apartment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kay
President
President


Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 3079
Location: Mostly SE Asia
4173 ants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of promotional activities are difficult to quantify, especially the offline ones.

I use many of those on Paul's list.

1. Google/organic - obviously! But you can't rely on G not to change its algo tomorrow.

2. Direct - lots of people have bookmarked some of our sites and come direct, which is nice. Business cards are useful too. I have loads of these, even some for one of Paul's sites. I give them out at any appropriate opportunity. Note the word "appropriate". I've also found that pens with our URL on them are well-received. Does it bring traffic? I've no idea.

3. Twitter - Dave does that. He's got some auto-tweeted and some he does manually. He says he's "not terribly impressed by the auto version".

4. FaceBook - we have an account but neither of us uses it.

5. StumbleUpon - I used to use this when I was bored. You just click from one site to the next and you can find some interesting things you might otherwise not have heard about. I even used to SU my own sites occasionally. It could bring some traffic spikes but never any extra revenue. The visitors presumably were just clicking from site to site in exactly the same way as I was doing. I'd forgotten that SU even existed as it's so long since I've used it. Some people are obviously still using it as we're still getting traffic from other people SUing our sites.

6. Twitter - as #3 above.

7. Telegraph - that's a great one and Paul's success has opened a few door for me too. Twisted Evil

8. Bing - I did concern myself with this for a little while but people advised me that if I was doing fine in G, then Bing would pick up on it soon enough - and that's what happened.

9. Google+ - I've not spent any time on it and wouldn't know how to evaluate the results. I have clicked here and there to "plus" things I like, including my own pages occasionally.

10. Yahoo! - just like Bing it sort of happens by itself.

I definitely agree that it's best not to have all your eggs in one basket. I concentrate more on getting to know people and build loyal followers to my sites in that way. There are some sites that I go to every day if possible - like this one! - and some people go to some of mine every day too. If the SEs dumped me, I would still get traffic. Not as much!

I dunno, maybe "social" media is a misnomer. It doesn't seem very sociable to me, but more a case of talking at people about your business. I do like to socialise with people online, and I've done - and am doing - some interesting work that way too. But I'm not tweeting about it. I prefer forums - you can have conversations, discussions, get to know people, do business, all kinds of things.
_________________
http://britishexpat.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Philb
Vice President
Vice President


Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 448
Location: London
507 ants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks - sorry, I was away in the frozen wastes of Manchester teaching. Glad that you like Pinterest, and that it seems to have some value. I'm afraid that I don't know of a way of adding more images than one by one - it might be worth asking them, since it's something that I'd like to be able to do as well!

I'm not sure that there are copyright issues, since you're not actually copying anything (other than the obvious) - there's very little difference to linking to URLs with something like Delicious or Diigo.

To answer Kay's question. This sounds a bit rude, but it's absolutely not meant to be; "I don't care". Let me expand on that - I spend my entire working life finding stuff, and I'm usually pretty good at seeing what's going to work and what isn't, and I'm an early adopter of most of this stuff. What *I* think is useful however, isn't going to be useful for everyone - I'm happy to bring things to people's attention, but I'm not emotionally or financially invested in them, so it makes no difference to me if anyone else uses them or not - and I'm certainly not going to tell anyone that they should use them, since I don't know your own personal situations and besides - I get paid for telling people what they should use as a consultant! :lol:

However - social media in general. Do a search on a preferred search engine, doesn't matter which. Take a look at how many results are actually websites, and how many are results from blogs, flicker, Slideshare, Twitter and the rest. The value of websites in terms of providing access to information - is dropping like a stone. They are, to all intents, dead - qualified by saying that's in technical terms, since that's not where development work is taking place; it's happening with social media, news curation and apps.

Most of us, one way or another, spend a large portion of our time communicating. Social media gives us more communications channels, and I always tell my clients 'go to where the conversations are' - because those conversations are taking place on twitter, facebook, quora and the rest. You can either take part in them or not - your choice entirely. But if you *don't* take part, you're the one missing out. You're the one who will lose out in search results, as people increasingly use other people to tell them/advise them on what sites to look for. The more places that you're at, the more you can get involved and influence what's going on.

Social media isn't a bolt onto the web, it IS the web now. If you were keen and interested enough to get into the net - surely it makes sense to continue that interest and explore the new resources that are available?

Phil.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Kay
President
President


Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 3079
Location: Mostly SE Asia
4173 ants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply, Phil. I don't disagree with you, I don't have the knowledge or experience to do that. I'm just saying that I don't like it very much and, despite having spent more than the last decade running my own websites, it's just more attractive for me now to be taking on research and writing jobs so I don't have to be doing all the tweeting, liking, stuff that I don't enjoy.

There's no right and wrong. It's just a case of what one enjoys or not.

As a librarian, Phil, you will understand the pleasure of researching something, and writing about it. That to me is a lot more enjoyable than tweeting at people in 140 wotsits. I don't like that. If that is what the web has become, then I don't want to do it. I can make enough to keep going in other ways. I'm a capable researcher and some people like my writing. I get offered more jobs than I need. I love it. It's a lot more fun than having to learn some darned new social media thing every day,

OK, I'll bounce the ball back to you. How does all this social media stuff affect your bottom line? Because I'm not doing it and I haven't seen any difference yet. (And if I do start to see a difference then I have my writing jobs to fall back on.)
_________________
http://britishexpat.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Philb
Vice President
Vice President


Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 448
Location: London
507 ants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're spot on with your comment "There's no right and wrong. It's just a case of what one enjoys or not. " Twitter works for some, and not others - heck, the entire interwebs work for some and not others.

For me though, I don't tweet 'at' people; that's not what I do. I prefer to think I'm engaged in conversations - as I often am. I follow conferences via Twitter, and will have discussions of an evening using specific hashtags for example, so I see it very much as a two way street. I have also met more people in real life, and gained more friends and professional colleagues using Twitter than *any* other method, bar none. So that's a really big difference for me.

Using social media - such as weblogs - got me to Redmond to advise Microsoft on the development of their search engine. It also helped me get elected as President of the Chartered Institute of Library and Information Professionals. It gets me most of my jobs, because I can connect with people, answer questions, aid, help and assist and all of that demonstrates my expertise in the social media are, which in turn brings me jobs.

And - I like it! However, if the way that you currently work does it for you, then I'm certainly not going to turn around and tell you to do it differently, because you're clearly doing a lot right anyhow. I would say though, that this is the way that the net has developed, and will continue down this path - no question of that at all. Each one of us has to decide how far we're willing to go with it. :wink:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
adigaskell
President
President


Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 5428

7099 ants

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


_________________
My social media blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adigaskell
President
President


Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 5428

7099 ants

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philb wrote:
For me though, I don't tweet 'at' people; that's not what I do. I prefer to think I'm engaged in conversations


I think that's the key Phil. If you have time and resources to actually use these tools to communicate with people, ie 2 way conversations, then fair play, do whatever works for you. But if you're just gonna use these tools as yet another broadcast medium to shove your rss feed onto then it's really not what social media is about. Not for me anyway.
_________________
My social media blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Philb
Vice President
Vice President


Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 448
Location: London
507 ants

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adigaskell wrote:
But if you're just gonna use these tools as yet another broadcast medium to shove your rss feed onto then it's really not what social media is about. Not for me anyway.


Absolutely!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
adigaskell
President
President


Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 5428

7099 ants

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gone off Seth Godin a bit but I think he's right with his latest blog

http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/12/the-trap-of-social-media-noise.html

Quote:
In Corey's words, the conventional, broken wisdom is:

Follow a ton of people to get people to follow back
Focus on the # of followers, not the interests of followers or your relationship with them.
Pump links through the social platform (take your pick, or do them all!)
Offer nothing of value, and no context. This is a megaphone, not a telephone.
Think you're winning, because you're playing video games (highest follower count wins!)

This looks like winning (the numbers are going up!), but it's actually a double-edged form of losing. First, you're polluting a powerful space, turning signals into noise and bringing down the level of discourse for everyone. And second, you're wasting your time when you could be building a tribe instead, could be earning permission, could be creating a channel where your voice is actually welcomed.

Leadership (even idea leadership) scares many people, because it requires you to own your words, to do work that matters. The alternative is to be a junk dealer.

The game theory pushes us into one of two directions: either be better at pump and dump than anyone else, get your numbers into the millions, outmass those that choose to use mass and always dance at the edge of spam (in which the number of those you offend or turn off forever keep increasing), or

Relentlessly focus. Prune your message and your list and build a reputation that's worth owning and an audience that cares.

_________________
My social media blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
paul
President
President


Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 8314
Location: UK
11706 ants

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see what's being said here, but I'm guilty of 1) and 3) in particular.

IMHO, you ideally need a significant audience if the time you invest in social media is to pay off, and you need to - at some point in time and for most businesses - be feeding your followers with some means of buying from you (whether it be a product or service), if you're to reap any rewards surely? And doesn't the latter mean you're going to need to post links?
_________________
UK Hotels - UK Selfcatering
Luxury Travel - Lake District Apartment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adigaskell
President
President


Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 5428

7099 ants

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's where the number of engaged followers comes in though.

Lets say for instance that you have 1,000 followers and they typically generate 10 clicks per link you share, or a 1% CTR

If you could manage to improve that level of engagement to 20 clicks per 1,000 followers it's akin to gaining 1,000 followers under your old ways.

For me the number of followers is worthless. The key number is the number of engaged followers. So to use a Facebook example, the # of fans isn't important, the # of people talking about you is.
_________________
My social media blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
martynh
Vice President
Vice President


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 336
Location: Yorkshire, UK
419 ants

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul wrote:


IMHO, you ideally need a significant audience if the time you invest in social media is to pay off,


Very true
I followed the 2 finalists from the The Apprentice on Twitter - Tom & Helen and the upsurge in their interactivity after reaching the final was massive. Their language changed quite significantly too.

Always fascinated to see these "make money quick on the internet" offers. What they fail to disclose is they have a huge database to sell to and the poor unsuspecting person who is being offered this get rich quick deal has no following at all
_________________
e-FM network | Get Above The Fold | Physiobench
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AardvarkBusiness.net Forum Index -> Web Marketing Forum All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Google
 
Business Forum Sport Forum Travel Forum


Powered by php B B © 2001, 2002 php B B Group

AardvarkBusiness.net Business Search Engine & Directory